Cannot launch greenshot.
Greenshot initialization of log system failed
The type initializer for 'log4net.Core.LoggerManager' threw an exception.
I won’t call that “workaround”. I did uninstall .Net 4, then i run “cleanup tool”, rebooted, installed .Net 4.8 - and GS (with stock config) seems working again. Did not try TGit though yet.
So, it was a fix for the problem, and GS was like a canary, dying because of external reasons. I would assume, until proven otherwise, that would .Net 4 be damaged same way in Win 10 - the crashes in GS would be exactly the same.
IOW it is not very much a Win7 issue, only if in a sense that maybe Win7 has more probability to damage .Net 4. But, two cases in several years does not sounds a statistics.
I do not see why you can not support win7 but can not support win8, unless your next release policy would be “nothing but latest Win 10 so-called-update”
Also, no offense, checking the date of last official release it seems hard to understand what do you mean “we DO not support”. It seems, you don’t DO any modern release now, and unless you truly expect users to compile Git master on their own, what you say sounds more like “we WON’T support Win7 in next GS release whenever we do it” and as of now there is no “live” support at all, there seems no bugfix releases, etc. Just a well developed knowledge base about the program last compiled years ago. Which covers most of problems, but if any new problemn emerges, then users are on their own.
That definitely sounds harsh, but it is exactly how it looks for me mere user.
Granted, the program as is already provides a lot, so it may be the case when no further development is really needed.
Frankly i would not install GS here either, at home i use Yandex Disk (one more Dropbox clone) and it’s built-in screenshotter is good enough for most uses. But here on my employee-provided working PC i would not install my personal clowd, and tools like IrfanView are too generic and requre too many keystrokes for simplistic tasks. So, it was GS.
There once was commercial FastStone Capture, but who would need it now? There also is PicPick, or was it PickPic, always keep forgetting it… The screenshotters niche overall seems shrinking, squeezed by complex editors like Paint.Net and GIMP on one hand, and simplicity-optimized clowd storage modules.
Another similar example would be the Image Uploader tool, which supports dozens and dozens of image hostings. Used to use it a lot, but with cloud storages becoming ubiquitous…
Except for compatibility maintenance releases i, frankly, can hardly find plausible direction to extend GS into any direction. It does what it promises, and… what’s more?
I do not see why you can not support win7 […]
It’s meant exactly as I wrote:
if this is a Windows-7-only problem […] there is no way we can fix this
See, we don’t even have a test device running this old stuff. Even if we had, why should we want to invest time in a version of an OS that’s not even supported by its own manufacturer?
there is no “live” support at all
Greenshot is ran by 3 folks doing all of this in their spare time, next to their full-time jobs, families, homes, etc. Do you really expect live support? That’s not how open source works, sorry.
Btw we’re working on a release, but it’s taking a bit longer than we would like it to take, for exactly the same reasons.
If you need live support, frequent updates and a customer service to complain to, please ask your employer to pay money for a commercial product. Alternatively, they’re more than welcome to sponsor us a part-time software developer position so that we can get things done more quickly.
One last thing: I really appreciate that you share your technical findings and thoughts in here, but parts of it (esp. the 3rd section of your last comment) really are not of much help for any open source developer, apart from being extremely demotivating. Consider you spent a considerable part of your limited spare time to build and improve a thing, for years. Giving that thing away for all others to use, for free. Providing help to users, as much of your limited time allows. And then to read harsh complaints about not supporting outdated OSs, missing live support and releases being too infrequent. That’s simply quite frustrating for any open source dev. Please consider this next time when complaining to someone who gave you something for free. You even noticed it would sound harsh, but decided to post it anyway.
If my parts of my response sound a bit harsh, that’s why.
If my parts of my response sound a bit harsh, that’s why.
No problem. I am not native speaker and English words are merely communicaiton vehicles for me.
Consequently, i can make use of a thoughy, expressed explicitly with a grin. But i can do nothing with a most polite Sphinx smile that i can not parse.
apart from being extremely demotivating
Well, sometimes dead end is just dead-end, even when you love dearly and spent years of efforts.
I would say, that truly demotivating thing is you can not just laugh me out, can not say “dummy, you are blind, there is so much left in this niche that can be added to GS, without turning it into bloatware like later ACDSee”. I would actually like to have a retort like that, but there is no. That is hurting you i think. My words are… dead canaries, not the poisonous gas. Or so i see the situation.
GS seems to cover but all fields in the stated mission, “close to perfection” if that sounds motivating.
Actually, i believe that becoming bloatware trying to jump out of the shrinking and already but covered niche is the actual danger that GS may face. Be it me, i would even think about removing self-made upload feature from GS and instead integrating with some other project, that is focused on picture-hostings and provides frequent “script upgrades” without main program body updates (that is how jDownloader operates or ImageUploader i mentioned, server’s support sripts are many and are maintained/updated separately from the core itself).
Somehow in a sense you are correct and this might be intentional demotivation. Demotivation against Second System Syndrome, against development for the sake of development. The lack of any releases for years, not even bugfix ones, i interprete as lack of natural directions to grow to rather than lack of manpower.
expect live support?
I was struggling with the word live, and i definitely do not mean live as “on the phone” or “in TeamViewer”.
It was more along “live project” sense.
The kind of support that “power users” can not bring and only devs can.
Like, assembling FAQs and quoting those FAQs on StackOverflow can be done by users for users even if there is no any developer for years, and many programs are still operated that way.
That being said, i did not “expect” or “imply” or “virtue-signal” anything, i was stating thing as i see them without sticking “good/bad” tags.
That’s not how open source works, sorry.
Actually most open source projects, at least those that are not mostly developed and funded by corporations, rely heavily on “User Groups”. You say “run by 3 folks doing all of this” yet at the same time there seems to be nothing for community on your site. The link HELP/Ask a support question leads directly to JIRA.
I would say, intentionalyl or not, you discourage user community from emerging.
You say “many downloads from SourceForge in 2014” - but SF DID provided forums/maillists. Because “users help users” was and is crucial to open source projects. Both for insulating devs from dumb questions and for providing “hunting grounds” for new developers.
You seem to be routing all the users questions not even on SO, which became “lazy default support forum” for everyone, but into JIRA, the kind of tool good for project development and cooperations of “deeply knowing” persons, but not suited for dummies. The kind of tool which is built (rightfully i think) about strict hierarchy of powers nad responsibilities. IOW, it is Cathedral not Bazaar.
One one hand you say “we are just three, we have no time to address every concern of every user, there is only so much hours in a day”. On another hand you short-circuit users to “you three” with any concern they may have. It looks self-defeating to me.
The initial Chris’s report is totally unfit for any bug tracker. Just “validate” it through the ESR's essay. At the same time, it got zero any response from anyone. Not even “Hello! add more details!” or “Hello! hire someone to fix it for you, thats how opensource works”. Not even “WONTFIX, closed”. You did not have time. No one else was there (peers, those peer users) too. Now you take offense with “project is de facto dead” assessment. Bah!
Look, i saw WinMerge 3.x efforts, i saw jgaa’s War-FTPd 3.x efforts, i am pretty sure their developers had a lot of devotion to their projects, once. They probably had some grande but maybe not well defined goals for their Second Systems. It was probably painful for them to see obstacles mounting. In the end the former seemed to scale back and resurrect 2.x branch, the later seems to be hacking something for his personal joy and research but no plans for end-user releases are given any more. For any users but developers themselves i do not see there difference from “deadly dead”.
You may take offense. Or may try to change something. Or may decide that is the state of things that actually suits you comfortably. In the first case i suspect you would be hurt again and again whener someone’s too blunt words or somethign else reminds you of things.
why should we want to invest time in a version of an OS that’s not even supported by its own manufacturer?
You cut off my quotation abruptly to the point of misquote. I was talking about both Win7 and Win8. Win8 (and even Win8.1) is also past “mainstream support” date. So, singling out Win7 looked pretty random to me and had me surprised. I think that understanding and publicly stating what specific support [you as in you all] can prvide to users, both regarding Windows versions, broadth of topics, depth of involvement, would benefit both you and users.
when complaining to someone
There was not complain, there was defining the situaito nas i see it.
You see things because you expect them to be there, It is, i believe, the echo of your internal complaint that you see in my words.
Thanks again for your message, and please bear with me, I will not respond to every single thing in this long text. Just a few things.
Yep, I feel offended by stuff like this. And I know that many other open source people feel the same. So, sometimes, I choose to express that politely when I think the person on the other end might actually be interested in what other people think or feel. All in the hope to have a few people less in future, ranting to creators about what they think is missing in their creation.
Sorry if I misquoted you, I didn’t mean to. Windows 8 was never a topic in this issue, so I only talked about Windows 7. That does not mean we are able to offer great support for Windows 8. In any case, we try to help if we can in a reasonable way. We cannot help with Win7, we might be able with Win8, but chances are best with Win10, sure.
By the way, everyone is free to participate in here and help other users. Same goes for superuser - which is like Stackoverflow for software users. (We also had a link on our site, I am not sure why it is no longer there.)
So, I think we went far off-topic enough… I’d rather end the discussion here. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and listening to mine.
Kinda good news. I had an absolute clone of the computer in question.
I installed GS on it, it crashed, but this time i did not go into deap cleaning with 3rd party tools, etc.
I just opened Control Panel, found the Programs / .Net 4.8 Runtime, and run uninstaller in Repair (or wast the wording like Restore defaults?) mode - and even without rebooting it did the trick.
And, if i am again here, i will use the opportunity to reply to the old rant we did.
i know about superuser, i meant stackoverflow as a “hive”, all at once, to avoid boringly listing all of the particular leaves that might apply.
The problem i see are not users who ask all their quesitons on SU/SO or on Facebook, or some “torrents.com” or whenever they are accustomed to dump all their quesiton about all “computers”.
I specifically meant users who do their research, who come to the official site https://getgreenshot.org and do according to the instructions there. And instructions there still are explicit and specific - open Jira ticket whenever you have any kind of trouble.
I sincerely think you have to rethink this Catherdral and make the first filtering done by your users Bazaar, be it your own forum/GoogleGroup/etc or SU/SO; and consequently only strain developers time after other users did the refinement process, for the questions they there could not answer without devs, but hopefully did enriched with tech diagnostics data.
The fact this quesiton was ignored by several years is bitter no matter how you spin it, and i think if the “Ask a support question” link had lead to SuperUser, or perhaps to some basic intro page linking to SU, and to ESR’s smart questions and to Jira as last resort place - this would not had occured.